Toasted Earth

Better Origin: Fotis Fotiadis

July 28, 2021 Michelle Cunningham Season 1 Episode 9
Toasted Earth
Better Origin: Fotis Fotiadis
Show Notes Transcript

This episode features Fotis Fotiadis, the Co-Founder and CEO of Better Origin. Better Origin develops a modular insect farm powered by AI that turns food waste into animal feed via insect bioconversion, thereby reducing waste, lowering carbon emissions and creating a sustainable food source.

Fotis and Michelle discuss his background in the oil and gas industry and how he shifted to focusing on sustainability, the importance of looking to nature to find solutions to our environmental problems, how Better Origin's modular insect farms produce larvae from food waste for chickens to eat and how the next step is producing larvae based products for pets and humans.

Relevant links:
https://betterorigin.co.uk/

Support the show (https://www.buymeacoffee.com/toastedearth)

Michelle Cunningham:

Hello and welcome to the Toasted Earth podcast a show about founders, visionaries, and environmentalist pursuing novel ideas and sustainability to, ultimately, save the earth. I'm your host, Michelle Cunningham, and for today's episode we have Fotis Fotiadis, the Founder and CEO of Better Origin. Better Origin develops a modular insect farm powered by AI that turns food waste into animal feed via insect bioconversion, thereby reducing waste, lowering carbon emissions and creating a sustainable food source. One of the things I loved about speaking with Fotis is his focus on looking to nature to guide us towards solutions and then combining them with technology to make them better. Prior to Better Origin, Fotis didn't have a background in insects. In fact, he started his career in the oil and gas industry, but realized he wanted to put his brainpower towards sustainability and eventually replicated the natural process of animals eating insect larva in a predictable, scalable way with Better Origin.

Fotis Fotiadis:

I am a mechanical engineer by training and I'm originally from Greece. I moved to the UK to do my first degree in mechanical engineering. And then I went on to work in the oil and gas industry for a few years, where I was working in an engineering consultancy, consulting oil super majors on kind of like, where to drill, what's the vessel they use, and quite a lot of technical things around extracting oil and gas from the ground. And, and that was fascinating. from an engineering perspective, was really, really interesting to see what the humans have achieved over the past like, what, not even 100 years, and had the opportunity to go in and visit some vessels. And to see the scale of engineering we put into this really mind blowing, from that perspective was great. But then, you know, it was quite sad to see that we're putting all this brainpower and we're just destroying nature. And, of course, you know, we're doing it because we have to, because we need, we need fuel, and we need electricity, and we need heating, and we always support humanity. But on the other hand, it just like it felt that, you know, it's not part of the future is not what I wanted to devote myself on. And that kind of like pushed me to explore other things. And I was always fascinated by renewable energy by generally the idea of like, recycling and, you know, using resources back into their origins. And that led me to go and do a Master's at Cambridge, in sustainable engineering, hoping that I'll get involved with something, but it's more on that field. And during that, that year, I was participating in pretty much every entrepreneurial competition, the University was running. And they One of them was like themed. Sustainability was sustainability themed, and it was around food waste, and tasking the teams to sort of figure out a better way of dealing with food waste is a huge problem. And, and yeah, we came up a brainstorm with my team, and my co founder now. And we kind of came up with this really weird idea at the time to use insects to convert food waste into high value nutrients, which is basically what happened to nature. And it sounded wild and really weird that a lot of Kayla's, you know, let's give it a go and see what happens. So we won the competition that summer. That was summer of 2015. And then, you know, spent a few months trying to figure out what we're going to do and then basically launched or funded the company, early 2016. And yeah, that's how we started.

Michelle Cunningham:

That's amazing that that came out of a competition, because, well, at least the competitions I'm familiar with, they're kind of hackathon like really fast, you know, three days or something like that. Did you already know, kind of the science behind this when you went into that? How did you come up with it in that amount of time?

Fotis Fotiadis:

Not really. I mean, the thought process was we're just exploring, you know, what is available in the market? And what do we actually do right now with food waste, and what are the solutions? And you know, there are some there's something technology called anaerobic digestion. I don't know if you're familiar with it, basically is decomposing food waste, releasing a release methane, and then capturing the methane to convert to biogas. And we thought, okay, that's interesting, but like, we're still wasting all these nutrients. Yeah, we need somehow put back into the food chain. So we started thinking about and brainstorming about like, you know, okay, so what does nature do? Right, what in nature, there's no waste. By waste as a human race, the human made concept or term it doesn't waste doesn't exist in nature, when you have something by degrading it. composing, it finds its way back into the food chain, the chain recycle. So we thought, okay, but how does that work? And then, you know, start exploring that. And then we figured out that, you know, insects is basically their job quite often right exist, then when you have an apple dropping up a tree, you will, you know, larvae will show up, consumed are converted into fats and proteins, which are essential nutrients for animals in humans to grow, and then an animal probably come and eat that. So that's how it goes back into the food chain. So yeah, we just thought, okay, that's interesting. You know, we farm every other animal in the world, why don't we farm insects at scale? And that's kind of like how we started the new riders.

Michelle Cunningham:

Yeah. And then you decided to actually do it?

Fotis Fotiadis:

Yeah, Correct. Correct. We thought, you know, why not? Why not? And, I mean, it was it hit, at least for me, personally, it hit all the, all the mental boxes I had in my brain, about doing something that is impactful, that is high tech that is sustainable, that I believe is gonna be the future that I can, you know, devote my brain and life to and feel excited about. So hello, boxes. Yeah. And then we said, why not? Let's give it a go and see what happens.

Michelle Cunningham:

I would love to hear a little bit about the problems that this is solving. I know, you mentioned food waste, also that like other ways to deal with food waste, don't protect the nutrients or like preserve those, what are the problems you're solving? Why are they important?

Fotis Fotiadis:

I would say the problem we're solving is twofold. One, and most important one, I'd say is producing a more sustainable way of feeding animals in humans, right? It's a bit a big issue as we have an ever growing population coming on earth is how we're going to feed this population. And a big amount of feed goes into feeding animals and interfering humans. So we need to find more sustainable sources to produce feed. And insects is a very, very, it's a much more sustainable source. To give you an example that I find mind blowing, you can produce the same amount of protein in one square meter of growing insects, equivalent to 1500 square meters of soy plantations, which just shows how much more efficient, sustainable and scalable This is. And, of course, the even more exciting things that you can actually do this things in near or in urban environments, which is where you need the food. So that's the first problem I would say is more geared towards food, right? Finding new sources that are more sustainable, that we can feed the population. And then the second part of the problem is dealing with food waste, because there are these staggering numbers that we probably have heard about them. But you know, we waste 1/3 of food produced every single year. But yet, we need to increase food production by 70% to meet demand by 2050, which kind of highlights an incredible imbalance in the food chain where on one hand, you have all this food getting wasted, which is just nutrients getting trapped somewhere that cannot be utilized somehow. And then on the other end of the cycle, you have this massive deficit or demand of like nutrients, so why not find a way to take those trop nutrients and put them back into the food chain. And this is what these were insects do in nature, just like the app is a missing link, in this cycle between food waste, and food production. And that's kind of reserved to problem solving.

Michelle Cunningham:

I love like the circular aspect of that, that's so awesome that you take something that's just gonna be total waste and create something that's now another Well, in this case animal can eat, which prevents us from having to grow a bunch of other food for them to eat. Right? Tell me how does your modules work? Like, how does this process actually happen?

Fotis Fotiadis:

Yeah, of course. So we follow a very unique modeling our technology, the fact that we are completely decentralized. So we build this, this fully autonomous insect mini farms in containers, but just called modules, where we deploy them on site or on farms, and we buy convert local food waste into local feed. And so the solution is quite hyperlocal, essentially. And our vision for this is that we thought there are so many farmers out there that have the same the expertise to farm and they have land and they have designed diversify and so on, what we should do is we should create a tool that we can allow them to do this. And that's what the container is, right? It's just a tool that allows any user to put in something that is waste on one end and get feed on the other end. So yeah, just we deploy these right now on forums, and we primarily focusing on the poultry sector. But of course we have like plans to grow way beyond that into all the other sectors in feed and food.

Michelle Cunningham:

Once a farm has said they wanted, are they buying the unit and like that's what they're buying or is it's a service where you're also providing the food waste and everything.

Fotis Fotiadis:

It's more of a service. So at the moment, we just leased the system. And what that lease entails is supply constant supply of need larvae, because that's a big element, right? You gotta go replenish the insects every so often, it supplies the software to run the system alongside the algorithms. And then of course, the actual system with some maintenance on it. So we make it very Lighthouse for the farmers of the users as such that they don't need to put a big capital upfront, they will take the system to pay a monthly fee, and they just see returns immediately on the same month, basically.

Michelle Cunningham:

And then the does the food waste? Do you find it? are they finding it?

Fotis Fotiadis:

So with regards to food waste, we help them find it. But quite often, they're more qualified than us because they know, you know, the north of the farming sector really well, they might know a farm nearby that has waste. But more importantly, what we usually try to do is approach companies and farmers together in order to close the loop. So for example, right now we're working with retailers. And they're the perfect example because we can displace or utilize waste from the supply chain, to feed animals in their supply chain that go back into the grocery store. So we go, let's say we approach a retailer and we say, look, we have a solution that we can help you utilize your food waste, to feed your animals and to be much more sustainable, and is going to be carbon negative, and so on so forth. So that's how we approach this. So even though the user is the farmer, actually the waste getting provided usually by either a retailer or a food company.

Michelle Cunningham:

And it makes sense that because this is all hyperlocal that maybe the farmers would like already have, you know, no places that have this food waste. Your AI what, why is that an important piece of this?

Fotis Fotiadis:

That's a very important piece for a few different reasons. First of all, it means that we don't expect the farmer to be an expert in farming insects, like it took us five years to learn how to do it, and we're still learning and you know, it's a, it's a new way to new science, right. And to teach someone how to do that takes time. And to teach a human how to do that takes a lot of time as well. And what we've seen is that, because we end up taking decisions quite on a more qualitative manner, it becomes difficult. So what our computer vision algorithms allow us to do is keep a stable and standard kind of like production without having the need or requirement for the farmer to become an expert in farming things, which means that we can deploy the system and within three days, the good to go. So that's that's one really important element. And second of all, he helps a lot with accuracy. And he creates a bit of a dynamic system in our in our units, because like most living organisms, you might have like a certain batch growing faster than another batch, you might have, you know, the potential disease risk, you might have some that you have not foreseen, or that can get picked up by the algorithms, and then have a dynamic way of feeding more or less, or anything else you might need to do to optimize your your regime and your your feeding efficiency. Basically.

Michelle Cunningham:

I would be so curious to see a time lapse of this. Just like a camera shot in there.

Fotis Fotiadis:

Yeah, it looks actually looks fascinating. The speed that they actually consume the food is just incredible as well, their tireless continuous workers,

Michelle Cunningham:

Do they turn into flies? What are the chickens actually eating?

Fotis Fotiadis:

The chickens are eating the larvae form, but they can turn into flies as well, if you let them. If they complete the cycle, basically, they do. But usually, again, if we just look into nature, what happens is that these larvae will grow on the ground, and then the chickens forage all day to look for them. And, and that's why again, like we're every time we look into nature, and try to study why something happens. It just it just makes sense. So for example, chickens are foraging for larvae all day, because they get a specific type of nutrients inside the body and the gut health and so on that really makes them healthier, stronger, more more resistant diseases and so on. And in the intensive farming model that we have followed in the past few years. We don't feed anything like that to our chickens, we just feed like dry feed, and that can have really bad results in the gut that makes him stressed. It doesn't you require all sorts of other antibiotics and various different other nutrients to kind of like supplement and disease risks when actually We probably have observed by feeding live insects is that it was really astonishing, we improved all the welfare metrics. So the chickens were more active, happier, less stressed, they were adjusting better, the better. You know, the head of better fed coverage better food health is a range of KPIs that measure welfare, we improved all of them. The vocalization was something that a farmer knows about, like how the chickens sound, and it was just literally much happier. But then the fascinating thing was that they actually produce more eggs, and high quality eggs as well, because the shell was stronger. Which just indicates, yeah, which indicates that, you know, it's, there's a reason why things happening away major. And it's when you introduce something so natural back into the cycle, cool things happen. And that's kind of what we observed.

Michelle Cunningham:

Can the chickens survive off of just the larva? Or do they also have to eat other things?

Fotis Fotiadis:

In theory, they can. But you wouldn't want to do that for a few different reasons. You know, a would take a long time to grow. But also, again, even if we think about what happens naturally, it's not like they eat a variety, variety of things, they grains they eat, larvae in the summer increases. Well, so you want you want to have a diverse diet, where live larvae are a component of that.

Michelle Cunningham:

And is this something that can apply in the same way to other animals?

Fotis Fotiadis:

Yeah, definitely can can definitely apply and pigs can apply in aquaculture as well. But then it becomes a matter of practicality, right? And how, what's the best way to feed? It's different animal. But yeah, we already have this discussion of some companies, some big farmers, basically. And the same goes for ducks has wrote,

Michelle Cunningham:

I guess it's kind of a combo of both technology and like old school, farming, just understanding like the lifecycle of, of how things work and how nature does it. That's, that's so cool. I would love to learn a little bit about how this impacts climate change. I imagine there's some positive aspects of this for carbon emissions and avoiding them. Can you tell me a little bit about that?

Fotis Fotiadis:

Yeah, 100%. And that's a very important topic. And that's one of the key drivers of what we do, right. And again, it comes from various different directions. First of all, we think about food waste, food waste, a huge cause of emissions, actually, food waste was a country, it will be a third largest greenhouse gas emitter of the year should in China. So it's the big, big, big issue. And to be able to utilize some of that food waste, instead of sending it to landfill, and put it back into you know, capture it and sequestered and put it back into the food chain, you already gained there. And then on the on the feed element, soy is a huge problem for the industry, not just for the industry. So it's a big problem generally, because is the primary leading cause of deforestation? Oh, like, yeah, if you've seen like, you know, the Amazon fires that take place, nearly every year, one of the main reasons is for SAP plantations. Because soy has become such a big part of our diet, wherever that is for feeding animals or humans, or, you know, it's in our bread. It's everywhere. It's everywhere. And it's Yeah, it just, we keep planting soy, it requires a lot of water, it requires a lot of land. And, and it's the leading cause of deforestation, which has, of course, direct negative effects, in terms of harmless carbon, the planet can sequester in terms of reducing emissions. So if you can utilize food, which is an input and displace soy on the output, then you really have a very positive environmental benefit. And we have calculated, of course, it depends on what you use an important how much you displace on the output. But on an average case, we we managed to eliminate 400 tons of co2 emissions per container per year. Which is a really good number. Yeah.

Michelle Cunningham:

Yeah. Yeah, that's really cool. Oh, and I had no idea about soy that that was like, so they're cutting down trees to plant soy. Exactly. It's where

Fotis Fotiadis:

Yeah, yeah, it's a massive problem. I mean, if you go in you see pictures online, is this really sad how we're just burning down forests to plant soy to feed these greedy species is called humans.

Michelle Cunningham:

So the soy is then consumed by humans or maybe animals and whatnot, and then a bunch of the animals and other plants we grow go to food waste, so all the energy that we spent now growing those is basically lost.

Fotis Fotiadis:

Yeah, and I mean, especially in animal feed, very A very big percentage of soy in chicken feed is approximately, I believe it's approximately 20%. Which is a huge amount.

Michelle Cunningham:

Well, that's really cool that your modules have such an impact on climate change, how? How would someone who's chicken farmer, let's say, go about getting one of these modules.

Fotis Fotiadis:

And they go on our website first, which is better origin dot code at UK. And then we have a forum that they can get in touch with us. And yeah, we usually have a child with them check the size of the farm, because we offer systems for three different average sizes, primarily in the labor sector right now. So chickens, yeah, chickens making eggs. And we are starting now to look at the broader sector as well. And, yeah, we usually chat with them during the site inspection and then virtual are live. And then yeah, we complete the order.

Michelle Cunningham:

Can they go anywhere? Is it? I know you're in the UK? Now? Is it only in the UK? Or can it go anywhere,

Fotis Fotiadis:

the technology is built so that it goes anywhere, and we have total remote operation of every single component in the system, we must manufacture the systems in a single location. So which means that we can just ship them, literally because they're in a container anywhere in the world. And then you know, the commissioning takes only three days, and can be done by a local technician as well. So yes, again, it is the right now the operation supporting primarily systems in the UK for the next six months. But we are taking orders for overseas as well, it just that there'll be a bit delayed.

Michelle Cunningham:

Where do you see the company going from here? What's next?

Fotis Fotiadis:

Yeah, and I think that's a, that's a one topic that really, really excites me, which is, you know, poultry sector is very important. And it's a huge part of our diets. And it makes sense to start there. But the real the real power of insects is that they can actually produce a very diverse range of products. And whether that is feed for chickens, or feed for pets, or feed for agriculture, or food for humans. And then you can, you can utilize a fart from the insect for chemicals, you can utilize the, the exoskeleton for fabrics, there's a lot of stuff we can do, we can come out of insects. So our plan is to start with poultry, and then move into pet food and human food and then into some of the other ingredients. And the beauty of having a system in a container is that we can just increase the number of modules in a way that we create a larger form. So we read discussing with some farmers who want to enter niches like feeding live insects to poultry are way beyond that. And we are designing now a factory that is going to be going to have between 10 and 20 modules together. Wow. Surrounded by warehouse Yeah, which still is decentralized, compared to like a massive, massive plant, but produces higher amounts of protein that can be used for different sectors as well. And that's where we see this going right we see better origin being able to provide a technology, the IP the know how the brand, at different levels of different sizes for users, farmers companies to enter a sector and farming since that's how that's our contribution to the sector.

Michelle Cunningham:

Would it always be the same type of insect? Or would the insect change based on what you're trying to produce?

Fotis Fotiadis:

Great question. In theory, the system is a platform for farming insects, but right now we are we're just focusing on black soldier fly, which is the insect we use. Because so efficient at converting waste to feed or waste nutrients. That's that's what he does. It takes only 14 days. And he multiplies 5000 times your natural body mouse, which is pretty mind blowing.

Michelle Cunningham:

That's crazy. 5000 times. Yes. Yeah. It's wild. How like other species grow so quickly, like, like the lifecycle of a fly compared to our own, just like

Fotis Fotiadis:

completely? Yeah, yeah, it's crazy. And they are fascinating creatures. The reason why they accumulate so so high percentage of fats and proteins is because when they convert into flies, they don't eat, which means that you have a lot of energy to be able to fly around made. And then and then die.

Michelle Cunningham:

Really, that's all they do. They're just flies to reproduce, and then they die.

Fotis Fotiadis:

Basically, they have a really, really great meal for 14 days, and then they just convert the flies to mate and that's the last of

Michelle Cunningham:

the larval stage is really like the bulk of their life. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Huh? Well, okay, so if you're growing larva, and it's gonna expand past chickens to other other types of food for maybe even people, I imagine this is going to be different than the chickens eating like directly the larva, right? So that will happen. They'll have to be like produced into something people would actually want to eat.

Fotis Fotiadis:

Yeah, for sure. And Something I didn't know which makes sense though, is that at the moment, more than 2 billion people eat insects so it's not just that in the Western world we're not used it and we find a bit yucky but actually you go innate in Asia or Africa you go to a few countries in the world they exist the standard part of the diet. Like in Mexico they serve insects with like a shot of tequila in Thailand, the lead insects in the market so it really is part of different cultures already. And a very, very nutritious that's why they eat them now for sure will be a different product and we have already produced some products that are really tasty. Just Just to clarify I'm not a person that I was very into insect before started this nowhere I was like, you know, oh, okay, here's here's a worm yummy. Let's eat dogs. No, by no means right. Miko Vaughn Remi has a bit more let's say brave in this thing. So his his dreidel, different forums, and his name house chef, his relatives very good at cooking. So he tasked himself with like figuring out a way to make them taste really good. And he will after four years, is I tried only once. And then after four years, he called me into the lab and he said, look, I think I have a recipe that is really good, you wanna try it out, like fine. And basically, we have a way of preparing veins, it's like a snack, you fry them, you seize it in and so on. And it tastes really, really good to taste like something between nuts and crisps. Only there's zero carbs, and have protein and really high quality fats. So it was it was very tasty. Very helpful.

Michelle Cunningham:

Is this something you'll actually try to bring to market like the this product that he's been working on?

Fotis Fotiadis:

I believe so yes, eventually, we're exploring two products right now. One is this and one is some sort of potentially protein shake, or something like that. That is, you know, it's a high high quality protein powder, or, and gym enthusiasts or for someone who wants to use supplements. And again, that would make a lot of sense, because nutritionally is very strong, but also is very sustainable. So these, these would be the two kind of like first two products we would explore. They wouldn't be like a carbonara made of insects or something like that. I think that's outside of the questions not? Because they people immediately think about that, oh, you know, we'll have a visual effects the visual thing with insect and will be gross, no, it's not it will taste very good and is very nutritious, and is very good for the environment is very healthy. So eventually it will be a no brainer.

Michelle Cunningham:

Yeah, I think there's going to be a little having to like get people to wrap their head around it and actually try it. But it does seem like there's more insect products coming out. And people are aware or becoming aware that insects are a good source of protein, and that they're better for the environment than growing a cow over its lifecycle and all the negative impacts that come from that. So yeah, you may get, I'll try it, I'll try it.

Fotis Fotiadis:

Well, first of all, I've got my friends here in London tried, and it was wasn't an easy thing. And the online ID which is quite amazing. Actually, it wasn't the crowd driving cyclists but it this way, and, But to your point about, you know, red meat and cow meat and stuff like that. Another really fascinating start or inflammation is that the amino acid profile, which means the protein profile of an insect is animal grade is the same as as a cow basically, has the same nutrients as meat, which means that we can get the same nutrients we need from insects, instead of like having a steak for on a product perspective, right, because there are other stuff in there as well. And that's why I think insects can be a fantastic way of replacing some of the red meat. I'm not saying that we should stop eating steaks and start eating insects, I'm just saying that it's a great way to supplement or replace a big part of that was going to have a huge environmental. Huge, hugely positive environmental effect. If we can display some of that.

Michelle Cunningham:

Yeah, yeah, it provides an alternative, another option, I guess, from meat or soy tofu, or whatever is being made out of the soy to kind of be a protein source. So I mean, I'm looking forward to it. I hope you guys make it. And if it ends up on the shelves here out in the US, I will definitely pick it up and try it and

Fotis Fotiadis:

well, we can send you sample probably so you know, we can take this offline and then I can I can send you a sample and then we'll see if you like it or not. I'm pretty sure I'm pretty sure you're going to be very pleasantly surprised.

Michelle Cunningham:

Awesome. Awesome. I would love to try. So what do you think are the challenges to taking these next steps to doing this production of more food from the larva?

Fotis Fotiadis:

They're quite beautiful. ranges, the range from, you know, what a company phases, the startup phases challenge all the way through, like some regulatory challenges. But actually, you know, bringing something like this to scale, one of the big problems or issues or difficulties or challenges, whatever you want to put it, but I found is that picking what product slash industry you want to focus on, and then scaling within that, because as we discussed earlier, the options of insects is just very, very broad and wide. And you cannot do everything at once, right. And that's kind of like when we started, we thought that we can launch all these products together, but actually can't. And that's why we're focusing on poultry because it makes a lot of sense. The Economics make sense. It's the very high acceptance from consumers. Because when you think of a chicken, you think of insects, Israel is just like part of something we've experienced. And so the challenge is to be able to, you know, take this concept, scale it up to meaningful amounts, and make sure we deliver an excellent customer experience was really important for us. But then, you know, on the other hand, like, what we're facing right now is that regulation is playing a bit of a catch up game with industry, because insects was not part of like, any regulatory laws, like before. So quite a lot of the laws governing how you should treat an insect are kind of put in place for other animals and doesn't make sense. For example, in depending on the country, you are in Europe, at the moment, you're not allowed to feed, let's say my new twins. Right. But actually, insects grown when you're. So it's like larvae. It's one of the feed they take is manure. So it's it's one of the challenges right now in our sector is for the regulatory institutions to make sure that they understand what are the limitations of this scaling, and make sure that we can address them, because it just at the moment, it is getting treated like any other animal, and it's not the same.

Michelle Cunningham:

Oh, so third, considering insects like the same as if you had a chicken,

Fotis Fotiadis:

more or less now, without going into too much detail? Yes, it's basically classified as an animal and the same, the same regulation, you need to slaughter an animal, the same regulation, you need to like dry an insect. And it just, it it doesn't make a lot of sense. But But more importantly, it's about what you feed them. So for example, in Europe, you know, a lot of feed any animal byproducts to other animals, because of the mad cow disease and a few other issues that we had, which is that makes sense. Totally fine. But insects feed of that. So it doesn't, doesn't make sense why that regulation covers insects as well, since that's what they do in nature.

Michelle Cunningham:

There's something being talked about as potential to change the legislation.

Fotis Fotiadis:

Yeah, it certainly is. It certainly is. within the UK, and within Europe as religious that we've I think we've hit a few, slightly more challenging topics over the past few years, that have kind of like dominated the conversation. But I think that the conversation is going and because there's a huge push now from governments, consumers, companies from everyone really figured out ways that we can improve the carbon footprint of whatever we do. And we anticipate a lot of changes will take place over the next the next year or two. Well,

Michelle Cunningham:

is there anything that our listeners can do to help?

Fotis Fotiadis:

I'd say, to educate themselves on on insects and why they're really good for the environment? And keep an open mind when we see them on the shelves of a supermarket?

Michelle Cunningham:

Yeah, yeah, we should have all of our listeners out here, go go online, find a insect based product and try it. I think that would be a good thing for everyone that just give it a try, then maybe they'll find that they like it.

Fotis Fotiadis:

For sure. For sure. I mean, yeah, I can promise that they like our products. I don't know if I don't know how the other companies make them, but I'm pretty sure that they'll find it interesting.

Michelle Cunningham:

Yeah, okay. Maybe give it a try. But don't rule it out if you don't like it, because there's nothing coming down to gray line as a great advice. That's a great advice. Cool. before we sign off, we like to end every episode with a toast to the earth. What do you hope for our planet's future?

Fotis Fotiadis:

Very nice question. I generally hope that we can find a way to actually make this planet sustainable. Because we are heading towards the exact opposite at the moment. And we've taken some actions in the past maybe without really knowing the effects or the might have proven very damaging. And and yeah, I don't think we could grasp at the time, the level of Damage we're causing because, you know, unless you see something's hard to know. But now we do. So they're no excuses. And I'm really hoping that we can work towards finding solutions, where nature and technology can work together. Because if we do that, then we are getting sustainable results. And we have a lot of examples right now, of technologies like this, right? What we do, for example, is something that combines nature and technology in a harmonic way, in a way that they can coexist, and they can help each other. I'd say, solar panels is another example where again, you use technology to harness the power of the sun, and that is more sustainable so we can keep working on this kind of solutions where technology is working with nature and harmony not against each other, then I'm really hopeful that we'll we'll get to the point that we have a sustainable planet that can sustain all of us.

Michelle Cunningham:

Thanks for listening to the show today. If you love the show, please leave us a review wherever you listen to podcasts. You can learn more about Better Origin by visiting betterorigin.co.uk that's b-e-t-t-e-r-o-r-i-g-i-n dot c-o dot u-k. Or visit our show notes at toastedearth.com for more links and details about this episode. If you are currently working on an idea, company, nonprofit or movement to benefit the environment, send us an email at hello@toastedearth.com we would love to hear from you. Raise a glass to the earth everyone. It's the only one we've got.